the OBJECTIVE JERK

STAR TREK II: Why Wrath Of Khan Still Feels Sharp And Human

• Jerk • Season 4 • Episode 211

Share episode

Send us a text

We break down why Wrath of Khan still feels sharp, human, and accessible, from its submarine-style tension to a farewell that earns every tear. Along the way, we talk creator choices, leaks and misdirection, and how the film respects fans without losing newcomers.

• Why the pacing and tone improve over The Motion Picture
• How Khan’s TV origin deepens the film without confusion
• What makes Spock’s sacrifice land emotionally
• The shift to a naval aesthetic and tighter editing
• Minor gripes about “future fashion” and ensemble use
• Hopes for more screen time for Uhura and the crew


Support the show

Again, thanks for hanging out with me!

Please feel free to comment or send an email to theobjectivejerk@gmail.com

SPEAKER_00:

What's going on? You were listening or watching The Objective Jerk, and I am said jerk. How's everybody doing? Hope everybody's well. So this is I'm gonna talk about Star Trek 2, Wrath of Khan. I I'm not gonna publish it. Usually when I record something, I process and publish it right away. But I don't want to do just bam, bam, bam, a bunch of Star Trek. I'm trying to space it out a little bit. So I'm going to do you know everything up into a point and then I'll wait. So I'm recording this a little bit earlier. So I'm gonna talk about some headlines possibly that are kind of old news by the time you hear this. Because I wanted to do a different podcast about something else before I go into the next episode. But it's been it's been how long has it been? It's been a little bit since I so it was the 15th. Say is the 19th, but I think I watched the movie a couple days before. So it's been like about a week since I watched the first Star Trek film, and you know, so I figured it was kind of about time, but it it's a little earlier compared to my last episode, I guess.

SPEAKER_01:

So anyway. Just letting you know. Also what was I gonna say?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I'll come back, probably not, but let's see what's going on, what's going on? Nothing, same crap, different day, ice, fake protest.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I think this is what I think happened.

SPEAKER_00:

I think that because you know, Democrats basically had control over all social media stuff. And so it was just like, you know, I used to get, ooh, flagged for this and that, and this ain't right, you know, all kinds of stuff, and and you know, you saw so much, it seemed like when looking at, you know, X or whatever, right? It was like, oh, the whole world agrees with the Democrats, you know. But it just was like, yeah, you know, just don't see it. I don't, whatever. But anyway, I think Democrats forgot that they purchased or pay bot farms and people to, you know, make what appears to be a lot of noise when it's actually not. I'm not saying the protests aren't going on. A lot of them are paid. You know, a lot of it's it's not organic. Yes, there are some people that are organically there, but not many. And the ones that are organically there are not stupid enough to interfere, like some of these people. But I think they forgot that they purchased all these bot farms and they kind of believe like what's going on is you know, all everybody like all the bots or whatever on online is, you know, angry about ice, but nobody really is. And they I think they forgot that. Like, oh yeah, that's right. All the fake outrage that happened years in the past, just you know, it's fake. And they're like falling for their own fakery. Like, what's that about? I don't know. Just because I don't, yeah, there are some people that are retarded, and you know, it if you look online, it kind of seems like, oh yeah, but if you were to actually get real people in large quantities from all over all races, all whatever, and ask them point blank, they would be like, Yeah, you know, no, ICE is doing their job. You know, people who aren't are people that are citizens, you know, being detained possibly, and this and that, and you know, having you know their day kind of messed up because whatever. Yeah, there's been a few and they've admitted to them, you know. But the number of illegals with violent criminal histories that are being deported compared to those, is it's you know, it's not even close. So it's like people are like, oh, your neighbors, and it's just it's just retarded. It's all a psyop. It really is, you know. But anyway, that's enough about that. So I did my last podcast. Well, my last one that as of right now. So listening to this, it's not my last podcast. Shouldn't be. I should have one in between this one and the one. But anyway, technically for me, as I as I as I spit these words, my last podcast I talked about Star Trek and how you know I'm not trying to, you know, I I don't have like a film, you know, review or history kind of channel, which I probably if I was a smart person that who is trying to make anything out of my podcast and or you know, YouTube channels, that's what I would do was make a film history review kind of thing, you know what I mean? But I just I don't want to. I don't know. I just want to do whatever floats my boat for the day, you know what I mean? I don't have a niche, I don't have a certain, you know, I talk about a little bit about everything, but primarily, you know, film, entertainment, religion a little bit, and you know, a little bit of politics. And I just sprinkle some of my experiences through it all. But it's like there's there's a lot of people that have, you know, film YouTube channels and this and that that are you know it's it's much better than they actually, you know, write scripts and you know, do lots of editing and stuff, and I'm just so damn lazy, you know. I mean, if you know, 10 years ago, if I was a time travel back and you know, maybe I would I could do this from what I know now and everything. Because I used to kind of know that kind of stuff. I used to I used to enjoy watching special features and watching the behind the scenes and learning things about you know films, and you know, I used to be kind of like I said, I used to be kind of a film buff and I used to be pretty knowledgeable. So like if we played like what's it called, trivial pursuit or any kind of game that was, you know, quiz, whatever, and it was like film related, I did pretty good. Which doesn't really do jack for me, except I guess maybe, you know, and those are the people with similar interests and I guess strengths as what I just described. They, you know, started a YouTube channel or whatever, and you know, and they put that to work. Me, no, I'm not smart enough. But I mean, it's like, you know, with that, and then plus, so that last episode with my about Star Trek was actually, I mean, again, I'm you know, I'm below anything. My channel, my podcast, my everything is is is you know, nothing, absolutely nothing. But I mean, I do have some regulars and whatever this and that. But I think I talked about how different topics are more popular on the different platforms, but it kind of seemed like that track, that Star Trek one was popular on everything. So it's like if I was a numbers guy or a statistic guy, I would be like, you know what, that's what I gotta focus on. But I don't want to, man. I just I don't know. You know, it I just there's people that do there's a guy that I watch. Oh man, I don't even know if I could. So there's this there's a YouTuber who who actually I learned a lot about Star Trek from this YouTuber. And basically, all it is is the guy watches a film, you know, he's probably seen it before, but he watches Star Trek the motion picture, right? And then he goes through all the special features that he watches the behind the scenes, he watches the movie with the commentary and all this stuff, taking notes from you know the mouths of the people who were involved in it, comes up with a script and the description and you know gets some clips from the video edits and makes you know an interesting and informative, you know, little whatever you want to call it, documentary or something on Star Trek or whatever, you know. And it's it's not hard, but it is at the same time. You know, it does take a lot of work to really, you know, it takes a lot of time to sit there and so I just watch like let's say, for example, I wanted to watch it and I wanted to do that, so I just watched it, took some notes while I watched it, how I felt or whatever I liked and didn't like about it, or whatever, right? I don't do any of that, which is why I'm kind of I just got done watching Wrath of Khan and uh doing my podcast now while it's so fresh in my mind. But and then, you know, I even watched the the special features like production a little bit, and I don't think I learned anything new. I think it was stuff I already knew, but you know, then it's like okay, now I'm gonna watch it again, but with the commentary, and I'm gonna take notes and this and that, and you take all that information and you write out something, so it's time consuming, and it takes, you know, you gotta have the drive for it, you know, it's not as easy as people like to claim. I don't know what the guy is called though. Shoot. But I watched this guy, and as far as I can tell, that like that's how he started off. I think I was like, you know what? Um I think he was a he's a trekkie. He likes Star Trek, and so he started making these little mini 15, 20 minutes, some of them are longer than that, I think. Little documentaries on the history and and you know background of these films, and then it's went on to James Bond and you know some other stuff like that. So I think he just probably something probably like me, just doing something as a hobby, and then you know, people started paying attention, so he just kept going. So it's like, do I want people to pay attention and this and that, and I want to get viewers and stuff? Yeah, but also no. Because then but then I have a responsibility, and I don't know if I want to do that. I don't know. I guess if I had a bunch of people say, dude, just do whatever, you know, maybe I would, but I don't know. I don't that that's gonna still be a ways away. I'd have to start off with movies that I can't find. I guess that's what I could do. Find movies that people don't have little videos, or at least not popular, or you know, whatever, and try and go that route, maybe. I don't know, but I'm I'm not big on editing, man. I hate sitting behind my computer for too long. It kind of bugs me. I'm not a big tech kind of guy. I'm just enough to get by, and then that's it. Like, I don't, I can't, I don't know. I can't, I don't know. I just can't do it. It's easier for me to just talk, record, and then put it on a podcast, and then there we go. It's more fitting to my laziness and my you know, whatever. Anyway, so wow, what how did I get to that? What was I talking about? Star Trek, this and that. I was just kind of describing, I guess. Anyway, but so it's you know, they're out there. If if you're listening to this and you're like, man, I would like to listen. Man, I you know, I need to find out. I gotta get these names of people so I can. I mean, it's not hard if you know you get on YouTube. YouTube's the only thing I really watch. I don't really watch much anything else. Other than like physical copies of films and stuff, old ones or new ones. I watched with my son, I watched Primitive War. It was alright. It was a little more low budget than I was expecting. And I was kind of expecting more of like kind of like Kong Skull Island, like it's just dinosaurs in a in a you know, an unfound, un you know, I can't think of the word right now, but like, you know, not like a timed kind of thing or whatever. I don't want to say too much in case somebody wants to watch it. I mean, it was entertaining. I thought it was gonna be a little more violent, which isn't a bad thing, I guess, but I don't know. It was just a little different, I thought. Wasn't bad, but I I honestly thought it would be a little better. I'm trying to see if I can think of who it is that I watch all that stuff from so I can share the love and be like, dude, this is this is who I I watch all that stuff from. But I I'm gonna sit here and look at this all the whole time. I don't want to record myself scrolling through my phone. Next time. Let me know if you want to know who it is I'm talking about. He makes yeah, some decent stuff. He did all for the Star Trek films and James Bond, like all the James Bond films. Uh plus he does other stuff too. But anyway, yeah, so The Wrath of Khan. Just got done watching that with my son. And I, man, yeah, you know, I remember, I think I said it before on the previous podcast that I remembered the worm thing. And that's the only thing I can really remember. I don't think I really sat and watched that film, The Wrath of Khan, until just now. Like I remember it growing up, like sudden in the worm scene and maybe a couple other little things, but I don't I think I saw the worm scene and that was it, and it creeped me out or something. Maybe I didn't pay attention, you know, because like I said, as a kid, it's easier to follow Star Wars than it is Star Trek. But but yeah, man, the movies it's pretty, you know. I I I knew, you know, obviously what happens, but even when when Spock, you know, goes and then they have his little his little funeral and everything, it's like fighting back tears a little bit, and I'm like, what the crap, man? Why you know, but that's because it's so good, you know? And that's why that's why it is good, because you had people who were either fans or just knew how to please fans. I mean, it's like, yeah, you gotta go, you gotta please the fans, but you also gotta please, you know, the non-fans too. Because it's it's a good movie by itself. You don't have to know anything about Star Trek to enjoy it, you know. It seems like every movie though, he's you know, Kirk always starts off as an admiral. Like, is that gonna be the you know, I'm trying to think of the other I think he was an admiral and the one with the whales. I don't have it in front of me. So it's like, when is he captain? But and I've never seen Search of for Spock, I don't think, so be looking forward to watch that. But yeah, so the movie, you know, much better production value, is that the right terms? You know, special effects are a lot better than the first one. Maybe they kind of used the same because they did the shuttle thing again, but you know, when the when the ship, when they're gonna do the inspection, and it's all very similar to the first film, but again, at least it wasn't like a 20-minute I don't know, I'm exaggerating, but it was quick and to the point, you know, and and yeah, it's like the pacing's much better, so much more going on. Yeah, it's like, you know, if you like sci-fi, I mean, uh just any movie, really, it's not too crazy into like any kind of like sci-fi speak or anything like that. It's just a good movie all around. I think that's why so many people like it. You know, it's not just that it's it's a good movie, it's a good sci-fi movie, and it's a good Star Trek movie, you know, and or a lot of people say the best Star Trek movie. Some people say the best sci-fi movie, really. I mean, a general as far as generality, general you know, it's not a horror sci-fi like aliens or you know, stuff like that. Space Odyssey. Some people, you know, that's kind of more of like a realistic, some people would say that's the best one. But yeah, people love The Wrath of Khan, you know. And one thing I didn't know until I watched that YouTuber who I was trying to share.

SPEAKER_01:

God, I wish I had his thing. I didn't know that Ricardo Monteball I didn't know he was on the show.

SPEAKER_00:

That that character was in the show. Like, that's awesome. You know? I mean I knew that now watching this. But I remember, you know, I didn't know that. I thought that was kind of cool. And then when I just watched the special effects special effects and special features, you know, the guy who s who was tasked with writing the first, you know, screenplayer or whatever. He just watched a bunch of the old shows, you know, trying to get ideas and this and that. And then that's what he came on was that episode with Khan and where he gets, you know, when they get thrown, or not thrown, but you know, I haven't even seen the episode yet, but I know it's like, you know, he had a Kirk basically sends him and his people to a planet to whatever, but then, you know, they at the end of the show, they're like, man, 100 years from now, they'll be kind of curious to see what happens of the and but then you kind of get to see you know what happens. Although it's 15 years, and that's so crazy, dude. I mean 83, 19, I think that's when that came out was in 1983, but that's in 1983, 15 years before 1983 was the 60s. Like that's just kind of crazy to think about, you know, and as a kid, to me, the 60s felt like forever ago. And now 83, it's dull, it's 30 years, no, 40 years. You know what I'm saying? Like it's like it's it's kind of crazy how you know how much time has, you know, I think part of it is it's crazy. I I know I don't finish my senses, and I'm sorry. I'm trying not to do that, but it's crazy how much how fast time goes and how much you know time in between certain things is what I meant to say, but I didn't finish it. But I think the reason, like within the last 20 years for sure, other than technology and stuff, it's not a whole lot has changed. Like you can you can look at a car or a picture or a film, and you can know that like okay, that came out in the 50s, probably because it's black and white, right? Depending on whatever, and then just kind of what they're wearing and just the ways certain things are. You could almost tell, okay, that was 50s, 60s, that was the 70s. That definitely came out in the eighties. I think that's the nineties and then you know, maybe two thousands. But after that, it's like everything just kind of nothing. There's no big distinct look about you know the world.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, everything's kind of plateaued to a an extent except for technology.

SPEAKER_00:

Which is why you know, everything kind of sucks and they're just remaking stuff and nothing new comes out. You know what I mean? Like it's just I don't know, maybe that's why it just because you know you could, you know, in the 70s it was like you knew the 60s you could oh remember, or even like the 80s. Well, I was a kid in the 80s, so 60s seemed like so long ago. And then I remember in the 90s, you know, when it was like the 30th anniversary of JFK being killed, and now that's 60 years, you know, it's like this is crazy.

SPEAKER_01:

But anyway, man, I get off track. Trying to talk about the movie.

SPEAKER_00:

But yeah, so definitely enjoyed the film. I think it was big improvement over the first one, which probably most people agree. Although I did like the first one more at the end, I talked about it. I liked it more than I thought I would. Second one is pretty good. I mean, it's more than pretty good, it's pretty awesome. It it's very well written, you know, it's a good story. Got a little everything going on, and you know, got some tears flowing, and this and that. And so, but oh, that's what I was talking about.

unknown:

Gosh.

SPEAKER_00:

So the guy, yeah. So he wrote, you know, he found the show, he got the idea, and that's where they they went from there. And then what's his face, Leonard Emoy? He didn't really want to do, he thought it was done, that was it. They did the one film, and that was it. He didn't really want to do any more Star Trek, so he wanted his character to die. And again, this is what I learned from that other YouTuber. That, you know, while they were making it, and then once the movie was out and all that kind of stuff, and as they were kind of editing it and this and that, like Leonard Nimoy was kind of like, oh man, you know, this is actually pretty good. Maybe I shouldn't have died. And I guess everybody kind of felt that way. So they thought they they filmed things and did things to keep it as a possibility, to keep Spock, which obviously everyone knows they did. But Gene Roddenberry, as great as he was for creating Star Trek, he I guess he didn't really like the way they went after the first one, as far as like uniforms and more military and just different stuff. And I mean, by then though, he kind of I guess he got promoted basically, but was demoted. So he had well, he was promoted but with less power, so you know he would give his opinions, but nobody had to really listen to him. And I guess he was kind of pissed about that and he didn't like kind of what they were doing, so then they they he spread the word that Spock dies, right? Because he saw the script, obviously, and he knew what they were doing. And you know, this is before the internet, so you know, news traveled much slower than especially in like you know pop culture stuff, but I think they were doing they had conventions then though. And that's where I think it got spread, you know, word of mouth got out to you know fans and this and that that Spock was gonna be killed, and of course people were pissed, and so the you know, producers, direct, whatever, whoever made the decision in this film, they filmed that beginning scene where they're doing the training for the you know, oh what is it? It's like the same thing in the remake, the 2009 remake. The I can't think of the word. I know somebody's like, dude, it's the blah blah blah. Sorry. But they did that because you know, in the thing, in that scene, you know, it's got what's her face, Christy Alley, she's the commander, and you could tell something's a little off, something's weird. But you know, it's a training simulation, she's making bad decisions or whatever, and then everybody starts dying, Spock included, and you know, then he gets up, and then like Kirk's like, Oh, I thought you died, and blah blah blah, this and that. So that's you know, so the audience or the public or whatever was like, Oh, that's what it was, that it was just you know that part. So he died, but not really, right? And then, but then when he actually does die at the end, then it's like you know, so I think that was pretty pretty smart on the you know, the creatives, whoever made that decision to do that, to kind of you know trick people into still loving it, enjoying it, and and you know, but because yeah, they were pissed and they might not would have gone if they knew, but then being as it was, they were like, Oh, okay, and then when he dies later, it's like but it was done in a way that you're just like oh you know, you cry, but you're joyful at the same time. I don't know, but anyway, yeah, so again, Wrath of Cons, it's by by by Trekes, it's it's voted the best film in the Trek, the original motion picture universe, the first whatever. And you know, it it is really good. I I have a soft spot though for the one with the whales, which I can never remember what the which one that is. So we'll see when we get there to watch it this time, though. But I mean, I could see, you know, it yeah, as a as just a story from a story standpoint and character development and all that kind of stuff. It's it's it's you know, it's it's a great film, so you can't what's what's bad about it, really? Can you think of something? Maybe some of the some of the the only thing that about Star Trek is when they when they're wearing civilian clothes, it's just so hokey. Like, what was when they're at the very beginning when when when when Bones goes to visit Kirk after his birthday, and they're drinking some Romulan, whatever, and Bones is wearing like chaps or something, but I don't know, it's just the most craziest outfit. People always think that like in the future, you know, fashion's gonna be just crazy when if you look at recently, like in the last 30 years, it hasn't changed much, but at all. So I think that's funny, but I mean it's not really a bad thing. I just I just find that kind of comical. But yeah, so I can't think of anything that I, you know, I kind of wish like here's my one thing, and maybe, you know, just because I haven't watched the whole series yet, the original series, and I have yet to watch all the movies. But again, it's very I know like you know, Bones and Spock and Kirk are the you know, they're the you know, what they're the trifecta, they're the the holy trinity of the Star Trek, which I get. But I would kind of like to see like a thru a Hura, a Hura. I can't ever say her name, but like she just really doesn't, she didn't do much in this one at all. The last two, she didn't do much, she's just kind of there, she reads some lines, but kind of be nice. I mean, she does get a little bit more in the one with the whales. I know that, and plus that one with Spock's half brother, she does like the dance and stuff. I don't know. I'm thinking, you know, or I'm hoping that there's you know, the other casts are a little more involved. So the next one, the third, because this is the third one, and then I I don't know if the whale one is the fourth one. Find out, but anyway, that's all. I like some of the other dude. Kirk's awesome. Love Kirk, but it's like I like the I like it when they kind of give a little love to the other characters too, though. That's all. Anyway, let me know what you think. And I appreciate your time. Thanks for hanging out. I'll see you guys next time. Alright, God bless. Bye.

Head Shot

Jerk

Host